Discussion:
Soft Fork Activation & Enforcement w/o Signaling?
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Samad Sajanlal via bitcoin-dev
2018-03-21 22:04:35 UTC
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Is it possible to activate soft forks such as BIP65 and BIP66 without prior
signaling from miners? I noticed in chainparams.cpp that there are block
heights where the enforcement begins.

I understand this is already active on bitcoin. I'm working on a project
that is a clone of a clone of bitcoin, and we currently do not have BIP65
or BIP66 enforced - no signaling of these soft forks either (most of the
network is on a source code fork of bitcoin 0.9). This project does not and
never intends to attempt to replace bitcoin - we know that without bitcoin
our project could never exist, so we owe a great deal of gratitude to the
bitcoin developers.

If the entire network upgrades to the correct version of the software
(based on bitcoin 0.15), which includes the block height that has
enforcement, can we simply skip over the signaling and go straight into
activation/enforcement?

At this time we are lucky that our network is very small, so it is
reasonable to assume that the whole network will upgrade their clients
within a short window (~2 weeks). We would schedule the activation ~2
months out from when the client is released, just to ensure everyone has
time to upgrade.

We have been stuck on the 0.9 code branch and my goal is to bring it up to
0.15 at least, so that we can implement Segwit and other key features that
bitcoin has introduced. The 0.15 client currently works with regards to
sending and receiving transactions but the soft forks are not active. I
understand that activating them will segregate the 0.15 clients onto their
own fork, which is why I'd like to understand the repercussions of doing it
without any signaling beforehand. I also would prefer not to have to make
intermediate releases such as 0.10, 0.11.. etc to get the soft forks
activated.

Another related question - does the block version get bumped up
automatically at the time that a soft fork activates, or is there
additional stuff that I need to do within the code to ensure it bumps up at
the same time? From what I saw in the code it appears that it will bump up
automatically, but I would like some confirmation on that.

Regards,
Samad
Jorge Timón via bitcoin-dev
2018-03-28 12:55:26 UTC
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Yes, you can activate softforks at a given height.
I don't see any reason why you couldn't rebase to 0.16 directly.
The block version bumping was a mistake in bip34, you don't really
need to bump the version number. In any case, I would recommend
reading bip34 and what it activates in the code. IIRC the last thing
was bip65.

On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 11:04 PM, Samad Sajanlal via bitcoin-dev
Post by Samad Sajanlal via bitcoin-dev
Is it possible to activate soft forks such as BIP65 and BIP66 without prior
signaling from miners? I noticed in chainparams.cpp that there are block
heights where the enforcement begins.
I understand this is already active on bitcoin. I'm working on a project
that is a clone of a clone of bitcoin, and we currently do not have BIP65 or
BIP66 enforced - no signaling of these soft forks either (most of the
network is on a source code fork of bitcoin 0.9). This project does not and
never intends to attempt to replace bitcoin - we know that without bitcoin
our project could never exist, so we owe a great deal of gratitude to the
bitcoin developers.
If the entire network upgrades to the correct version of the software (based
on bitcoin 0.15), which includes the block height that has enforcement, can
we simply skip over the signaling and go straight into
activation/enforcement?
At this time we are lucky that our network is very small, so it is
reasonable to assume that the whole network will upgrade their clients
within a short window (~2 weeks). We would schedule the activation ~2 months
out from when the client is released, just to ensure everyone has time to
upgrade.
We have been stuck on the 0.9 code branch and my goal is to bring it up to
0.15 at least, so that we can implement Segwit and other key features that
bitcoin has introduced. The 0.15 client currently works with regards to
sending and receiving transactions but the soft forks are not active. I
understand that activating them will segregate the 0.15 clients onto their
own fork, which is why I'd like to understand the repercussions of doing it
without any signaling beforehand. I also would prefer not to have to make
intermediate releases such as 0.10, 0.11.. etc to get the soft forks
activated.
Another related question - does the block version get bumped up
automatically at the time that a soft fork activates, or is there additional
stuff that I need to do within the code to ensure it bumps up at the same
time? From what I saw in the code it appears that it will bump up
automatically, but I would like some confirmation on that.
Regards,
Samad
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https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
Samad Sajanlal via bitcoin-dev
2018-03-29 05:14:42 UTC
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Excellent - Thanks for your response Jorge. This helps us plan out the
future upgrades properly.
Since I see 0.15 and 0.16 use block versions as 0x20000000, whereas the
current deployed codebase (based on bitcoin 0.9.4) makes versions
0x00000002 (as seen by a 0.15 client), it appears safe to activate soft
forks which require a minimum of version 3 and 4 blocks (0x00000003
and 0x00000004,
respectively). Would you agree?
Post by Jorge Timón via bitcoin-dev
Yes, you can activate softforks at a given height.
I don't see any reason why you couldn't rebase to 0.16 directly.
The block version bumping was a mistake in bip34, you don't really
need to bump the version number. In any case, I would recommend
reading bip34 and what it activates in the code. IIRC the last thing
was bip65.
On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 11:04 PM, Samad Sajanlal via bitcoin-dev
Post by Samad Sajanlal via bitcoin-dev
Is it possible to activate soft forks such as BIP65 and BIP66 without
prior
Post by Samad Sajanlal via bitcoin-dev
signaling from miners? I noticed in chainparams.cpp that there are block
heights where the enforcement begins.
I understand this is already active on bitcoin. I'm working on a project
that is a clone of a clone of bitcoin, and we currently do not have
BIP65 or
Post by Samad Sajanlal via bitcoin-dev
BIP66 enforced - no signaling of these soft forks either (most of the
network is on a source code fork of bitcoin 0.9). This project does not
and
Post by Samad Sajanlal via bitcoin-dev
never intends to attempt to replace bitcoin - we know that without
bitcoin
Post by Samad Sajanlal via bitcoin-dev
our project could never exist, so we owe a great deal of gratitude to the
bitcoin developers.
If the entire network upgrades to the correct version of the software
(based
Post by Samad Sajanlal via bitcoin-dev
on bitcoin 0.15), which includes the block height that has enforcement,
can
Post by Samad Sajanlal via bitcoin-dev
we simply skip over the signaling and go straight into
activation/enforcement?
At this time we are lucky that our network is very small, so it is
reasonable to assume that the whole network will upgrade their clients
within a short window (~2 weeks). We would schedule the activation ~2
months
Post by Samad Sajanlal via bitcoin-dev
out from when the client is released, just to ensure everyone has time to
upgrade.
We have been stuck on the 0.9 code branch and my goal is to bring it up
to
Post by Samad Sajanlal via bitcoin-dev
0.15 at least, so that we can implement Segwit and other key features
that
Post by Samad Sajanlal via bitcoin-dev
bitcoin has introduced. The 0.15 client currently works with regards to
sending and receiving transactions but the soft forks are not active. I
understand that activating them will segregate the 0.15 clients onto
their
Post by Samad Sajanlal via bitcoin-dev
own fork, which is why I'd like to understand the repercussions of doing
it
Post by Samad Sajanlal via bitcoin-dev
without any signaling beforehand. I also would prefer not to have to make
intermediate releases such as 0.10, 0.11.. etc to get the soft forks
activated.
Another related question - does the block version get bumped up
automatically at the time that a soft fork activates, or is there
additional
Post by Samad Sajanlal via bitcoin-dev
stuff that I need to do within the code to ensure it bumps up at the same
time? From what I saw in the code it appears that it will bump up
automatically, but I would like some confirmation on that.
Regards,
Samad
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bitcoin-dev mailing list
https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
Jorge Timón via bitcoin-dev
2018-03-30 20:52:50 UTC
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Yes, in fact, you don't need to lose those bits like bitcoin by
imposing that the version is greater than that. But I guess just doing
the same is simpler.

On Thu, Mar 29, 2018 at 7:14 AM, Samad Sajanlal
Post by Samad Sajanlal via bitcoin-dev
Excellent - Thanks for your response Jorge. This helps us plan out the
future upgrades properly.
Since I see 0.15 and 0.16 use block versions as 0x20000000, whereas the
current deployed codebase (based on bitcoin 0.9.4) makes versions 0x00000002
(as seen by a 0.15 client), it appears safe to activate soft forks which
require a minimum of version 3 and 4 blocks (0x00000003 and 0x00000004,
respectively). Would you agree?
Post by Jorge Timón via bitcoin-dev
Yes, you can activate softforks at a given height.
I don't see any reason why you couldn't rebase to 0.16 directly.
The block version bumping was a mistake in bip34, you don't really
need to bump the version number. In any case, I would recommend
reading bip34 and what it activates in the code. IIRC the last thing
was bip65.
On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 11:04 PM, Samad Sajanlal via bitcoin-dev
Post by Samad Sajanlal via bitcoin-dev
Is it possible to activate soft forks such as BIP65 and BIP66 without prior
signaling from miners? I noticed in chainparams.cpp that there are block
heights where the enforcement begins.
I understand this is already active on bitcoin. I'm working on a project
that is a clone of a clone of bitcoin, and we currently do not have BIP65 or
BIP66 enforced - no signaling of these soft forks either (most of the
network is on a source code fork of bitcoin 0.9). This project does not and
never intends to attempt to replace bitcoin - we know that without bitcoin
our project could never exist, so we owe a great deal of gratitude to the
bitcoin developers.
If the entire network upgrades to the correct version of the software (based
on bitcoin 0.15), which includes the block height that has enforcement, can
we simply skip over the signaling and go straight into
activation/enforcement?
At this time we are lucky that our network is very small, so it is
reasonable to assume that the whole network will upgrade their clients
within a short window (~2 weeks). We would schedule the activation ~2 months
out from when the client is released, just to ensure everyone has time to
upgrade.
We have been stuck on the 0.9 code branch and my goal is to bring it up to
0.15 at least, so that we can implement Segwit and other key features that
bitcoin has introduced. The 0.15 client currently works with regards to
sending and receiving transactions but the soft forks are not active. I
understand that activating them will segregate the 0.15 clients onto their
own fork, which is why I'd like to understand the repercussions of doing it
without any signaling beforehand. I also would prefer not to have to make
intermediate releases such as 0.10, 0.11.. etc to get the soft forks
activated.
Another related question - does the block version get bumped up
automatically at the time that a soft fork activates, or is there additional
stuff that I need to do within the code to ensure it bumps up at the same
time? From what I saw in the code it appears that it will bump up
automatically, but I would like some confirmation on that.
Regards,
Samad
_______________________________________________
bitcoin-dev mailing list
https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
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